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Date:	12/17/99 4:30:35 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, December 17 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1520<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: Silly Traveller)<BR>
OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
Re: independent Terran invention of jump drive? sure<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
Re: Chicks, Guns, and 3I<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re Mergins the US and Canada<BR>
Re: [OT] Firearms Discussions <BR>
Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
Re:  OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
Re: Weapons, etc.<BR>
Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
[BITS] Millennium Announcement Part 2<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:28:29 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Dec 99, at 15:55, David L. Pulver wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> You want gun control, enforce a country-wide set of restrictions,<BR>
> eliminate all "grandfather clauses" allowing resale of existing weapons et<BR>
> al (use buy-backs if necessary), enforce drug law level penalties for<BR>
> non-complience (mandatory sentencing, like there is for crack cocaine) and<BR>
> offer $5,000 buy-back on any firearm not covered by the licensing. Cost<BR>
> you a few billion dollars, but if you've the stones for it...<BR>
<BR>
One problem - if Australia's experience is any guide buy-backs don't <BR>
work.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:06:12 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: Silly Traveller)<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:40:23 -0500 (EST), Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In the interests of further confusing things, I have to interject this tidbit:<BR>
<BR>
>The Torah (Old Testament) has a least one MAJOR change in it during the <BR>
>translation process (Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English in the King James <BR>
>Bible). In the ten Commandments, it is "Thou shall not MURDER", which in the <BR>
>King James Bible is "Thou shall not kill". I call this major as it encourages <BR>
>pacifism (which I don't believe in - see the 2nd Amem. flamewar). Is there <BR>
>any other changes that is pertinent to the Ark?<BR>
<BR>
Relevance to the Ark uncertain in context, but...<BR>
<BR>
"Thou shalt not steal" should have been translated as "Thou shalt<BR>
not kidnap", and "Thou shalt not covet..." should have been "Thou<BR>
shalt not steal..."<BR>
<BR>
Also, elsewhere in the TNK, "Suffer not a witch to live" should<BR>
have read "poisoner" for "witch".<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:10:56 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
<BR>
>From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
>Subject: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
><BR>
>I've written a space combat game the history of which has combined USA and<BR>
>Canada into the Union of North America.  How would Canadians feal about<BR>
>that?  Americans?  Would it help that in 2080 the president-elect from<BR>
>Toronto gives a "before the decade is out" speech<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't object.  These days, I do most of my work south of the border or<BR>
for companies that sell most of their material to the US,  while most of my<BR>
Canadian friends haveleft the country to get work elsewhere or Americans I<BR>
communicate with on line. Customs barriers, et al are more of an annoyance<BR>
than anything else -- and I'd like to have the chance to work at any US<BR>
game company.<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon RPG * Dominion Tank Police RPG *<BR>
Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:20:47 +0000<BR>
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: independent Terran invention of jump drive? sure<BR>
<BR>
At 07:25 PM 12/17/82 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>> <snip><BR>
>Excellent.  You've chosen to recruit him without his even being aware of<BR>
>it.  He really believes that he is still his pre-Templar self, and will<BR>
>conduct himself in every way as if nothing has changed.  <BR>
><BR>
>I think he's going to make an excellent addition to the order.<BR>
><BR>
>--Glenn<BR>
><BR>
Does this mean that it is now legal for me to:<BR>
<BR>
1) Assert that figthers are just SDBs stripped of long term life support<BR>
2) Jump is a state not a space<BR>
3) Jump, Stutterwarp, Wormholes, Gates & Psionic Transfers are just<BR>
different implementation of the same underlying principle.<BR>
4) distribute assorted fragments from my notes on Traveller/Galactica,<BR>
Traveller/Dune & Traveller/UFO<BR>
5) Missiles are allowed as much accelleration as you wish to build into them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:29:50 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Keith Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Maybe you have more ethical dealers in PA, but -- I'm dealing PURELY with<BR>
> >hearsay, here, you understand -- out West you're LUCKY if it gets cut with<BR>
> >PCP or Draino.<BR>
> <BR>
> Around Sacramento (the meth capitol of the world), LSD is usually cut with <BR>
> speed.<BR>
<BR>
!!! Um.. er... ah... I have no non-self-incriminating comment to make.<BR>
Either about the so-called drawbacks of that, or Sacramento's ridiculous,<BR>
absurd, pathetic claim to be meth capital of the world.  Bah!  <BR>
<BR>
> >Or perhaps you're with the Scouts and have one of those (CT)<BR>
> >unrefined-fuel-friendly drives.<BR>
> <BR>
> Interesting way of putting it. ;)<BR>
<BR>
I'm always looking for ways to convert Traveller technology to the service<BR>
of vice.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:31:19 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:28:54 -0600<BR>
>From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
>Results:  Guns in the hands of law abiding citizens reduce crime.<BR>
><BR>
>> I can drive from Vermont to New York without being stopped by customs<BR>
>> officials.  I can have a friend with a Vermont address buy a gun in<BR>
>> Vermont, have him hand it to me outside the store (after any <BR>
>> waiting period)<BR>
>> and then drive to New York. If I keep a few km over the speed <BR>
>> limit, I'm<BR>
>> not going to be stopped.  That's gun control?<BR>
><BR>
>It's also a felony, unless you and your friend are residents of Vermont.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I said that in the very next paragraph. People break laws that are<BR>
difficult to enforce. Like copying CDs, for example.<BR>
<BR>
>And trash every right that the country was founded on?  Short of doing that,<BR>
>it won't work.  Remember Prohibition?  How about the current 'war on drugs?'<BR>
<BR>
That's what I said, actually.  It should be a bit easier to ban guns,<BR>
though. Even in Japan, which has among the strictess gun control, a<BR>
blackmarket pistol (1 kg or so) is worth only about $1,000 US.  A kg of<BR>
cocaine is worth a heck of a lot more and much easier to hide!  Also, while<BR>
most of the alcohol using or drug using population must buy more<BR>
drinks/hits/smokes every week or so, the vast majority of the gun using<BR>
population does not buy a new gun or a new case of ammo every week. (Some<BR>
might, but...)<BR>
<BR>
>What is a 'buy-back'?  How can the gov't 'buy-back' something it never<BR>
>owned?  If  you don't choose to 'sell' it to the government, you are put in<BR>
>jail.  This is also known as confiscation.<BR>
<BR>
Yep. Exactly.  This is supported by the US constitution, which recognizes<BR>
the right of the citizens to change a government they feel is inadequate,<BR>
by force if necessary.  That does not just mean a government that tries to<BR>
take away guns. It can mean a government that does not take away guns...<BR>
One way is to rise up in revolt. Another way is to convince the law makers<BR>
to change the constitution, through a constitutional amendment.  Sure, it<BR>
won't happen... unless enough people want it to.<BR>
<BR>
>Besides, it was something about confiscating illegal weaponry that set off<BR>
>the American Revolution back in 1776.<BR>
<BR>
One of the triggers, sure. But historical data (wills, etc.) shows that US<BR>
citizens did not care much about guns after the revolution -- circa 1800,<BR>
militias were in a sorry state, most citizens did not own a working gun,<BR>
etc.  They cared about the confiscation of weaponry because they were<BR>
preparing for armed insurrection.<BR>
><BR>
>Gosh - most of these illicit drugs are banned in most countries.  Doesn't<BR>
>stop metric shitloads of 'em being smuggled into the US from Columbia.<BR>
<BR>
True. White powder is easier to smuggle than guns.  It's also addictive.<BR>
<BR>
>The US does *not* need one system, for anything below the federal level.  We<BR>
>are, supposedly,  a union of states - not one overbearing federal state.<BR>
<BR>
Well, watch what will happen if one of your states makes drugs legal, and<BR>
another one doesn't...<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon RPG * Dominion Tank Police RPG *<BR>
Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:30:56 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > But here, living in California, I have had little old ladies walk past three<BR>
> > or four legitimate Latina girls to earnestly and insistently question me in<BR>
> > Spanish and refuse adamantly to believe that I can't understand them.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I've learned that the only way to get rid of them is to say, insistently,<BR>
> > "Supeingo ga wakarimasen yo, obaasan!" over and over and over.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ok, now you *have* to tell us what that means! :-)<BR>
> <BR>
"I don't speak Spanish, grandmother."  In Japanese.  Gets the point<BR>
across.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:53:25 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Chicks, Guns, and 3I<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:42:38 -0600<BR>
>From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517<BR>
<BR>
>> I trust pro-gun supporters also believe that the world will be a safer<BR>
>> place if every state had ICBMs with nuclear warheads.  After all, why<BR>
>> oppose the things?  <BR>
><BR>
>Ah, the 'Nuke' strawman.  I was wondering when it would show up.<BR>
>1. No one is arguing for personal nuke ownership.  When someone argues for<BR>
>it, then we can talk about it.<BR>
<BR>
You must be confusing me with someone else. I did not say "if we allow<BR>
semi-auto rifles with big magazines, where will it end? Will you want nukes<BR>
in your basement next?"  I said "by analogy, an argument for gun ownership<BR>
keeping the peace between individuals is similar to an argument for<BR>
profileration of nuclear weapons<BR>
keeping the peace between states. If you should favor one, you should<BR>
philosophically favor the other."<BR>
<BR>
>However - it does seem that MAD did more or less keep the peace for 50<BR>
>years.  It wasn't nice - but do you think that it would have been different<BR>
>if only one superpower had had 'em?<BR>
<BR>
Depends on the superpower. If only the USSR did, yes.  Otherwise, it's  a<BR>
case by case basis.  Nukes don't necessarily deter conventional agression,<BR>
but we have yet to see a situation where a nuclear power was pushed to the<BR>
wall in a multi-polar situation and had the choice between firing or<BR>
national destruction.  If Kuwait had them, would they have pushed the<BR>
button?  What would that have meant for the middle east?  Etc.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> It really<BR>
>> depends what you're worried about, of course. <BR>
><BR>
>That's true.  I usually worry about people telling me how to live my life<BR>
>especially when I am not hurting anyone.<BR>
><BR>
> -- vargr1                                              UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>
>The three principle virtues of a good programmer   | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>
> are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.             | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>
>             ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **           <BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:50:30 -0800<BR>
>From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
><BR>
>>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:45:49 -0500 (EST)<BR>
>>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
>>On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> > I'm way too young to remember this first hand, but it probably wasn't <BR>
>> making<BR>
>> > anybody sick. The physical effects of LSD, even when it's "bad" aren't<BR>
>> > terribly impressive.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Maybe you have more ethical dealers in PA, but -- I'm dealing PURELY with<BR>
>>hearsay, here, you understand -- out West you're LUCKY if it gets cut with<BR>
>>PCP or Draino.<BR>
><BR>
>Around Sacramento (the meth capitol of the world), LSD is usually cut with <BR>
>speed.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>>Or perhaps you're with the Scouts and have one of those (CT)<BR>
>>unrefined-fuel-friendly drives.<BR>
><BR>
>Interesting way of putting it. ;)<BR>
>_________________________________________________________<BR>
>Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
>Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
>Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
>  IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+<BR>
>_________________________________________________________ <BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:49:29 +1300<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: 7 Wonders of Charted Space<BR>
><BR>
>On 17 Dec 99, at 13:43, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Kristian Miller writes:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> >ObTrav:  I once had a Traveller player who planned to have his character<BR>
>> >buy a "book" of the "Seven Wonders of the Known Universe" and be an<BR>
>> >interstellar tourist.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> So what would be the 7 Wonders of Charted Space? Any ideas? Apart from the<BR>
>> unfinished ringworld in the Vargr Extents I can't think of any canonical<BR>
>> feature that merits inclusion on a list of the seven most spectacular<BR>
>> sights of the known universe.<BR>
><BR>
>There's another unfinished ringworld in the Hinterworlds. However the <BR>
>locals don't like visitors, so I doubt it'd be high on the tourist <BR>
>attractions of known space.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>- --<BR>
>Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
><BR>
>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:55:12 -0500<BR>
>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
>Subject: [OT] Firearms Discussions <BR>
><BR>
>David Pulver wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>The same argument is a pro gun argument: one individual with a gun and <BR>
>good tactics can take out a number of oppressive/crazed individuals without, <BR>
>wheras he'd be overun if he had a knife and they did as well.  Depends on <BR>
>who you see as your enemies, i suppose...<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>Arm Everybody. The Good Guys outnumber the Bad Guys.<BR>
>        - seen recently on a bumper sticker<BR>
><BR>
>Walt Smith<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1519<BR>
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><BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon RPG * Dominion Tank Police RPG *<BR>
Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:55:01 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Keith Johnson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Around Sacramento (the meth capitol of the world), LSD is usually cut with <BR>
> > speed.<BR>
> <BR>
> !!! Um.. er... ah... I have no non-self-incriminating comment to make.<BR>
> Either about the so-called drawbacks of that, or Sacramento's ridiculous,<BR>
> absurd, pathetic claim to be meth capital of the world.  Bah!  <BR>
> <BR>
LOL!  Are you serious, they really say that there?  Kazuhiro (a former<BR>
closer personal associate who lives in Davis) will be so disappointed--<BR>
he never noticed any shabu up there.<BR>
<BR>
> I'm always looking for ways to convert Traveller technology to the service<BR>
> of vice.<BR>
> <BR>
Keep talking like that, and I might just stay in this country, assuming<BR>
Hiroshi's situation permits it.  I think you'd be fun to have in a game.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri =) (it's fog, not paulownia tree, and yes I do know that usually only<BR>
foxes are named that!)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:53:50 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Mergins the US and Canada<BR>
<BR>
>I've written a space combat game the history of which has combined USA and<BR>
>Canada into the Union of North America.  How would Canadians feal about<BR>
>that?  Americans?  Would it help that in 2080 the president-elect from<BR>
>Toronto gives a "before the decade is out" speech<BR>
><BR>
a) You're not the first, and probably won't be the last. GZG's Full Thrust<BR>
has a merged US, Canada and UK, IIRC.<BR>
b) If any two nations of diverse peoples are similar, it is the US and<BR>
Canada; both have localized concentrations of ethnic populations, and a<BR>
wide variety therof. Both have Socialized and Regulated Semi-capitalist<BR>
non-command economies. Both are severed colonies of HRM George III, albiet<BR>
not severed form colonial oppression at the same time. Both are republics,<BR>
and merging Canada into the US would simply result in (IIRC) 13 new states,<BR>
and fewer reps in congress for new york, texas, california, etc... smaller<BR>
states would really not suffer in congress. Realistically, they already<BR>
have semi-integrated militaries (I see Canook Flyboys ALL THE BLOODY<BR>
TIME...), with yanks serving at canadian bases and canooks serving at us<BR>
bases.<BR>
c) the common language is closer than with any other pair of purportedly<BR>
english speaking nations, with the exception of the quebeois "french"; the<BR>
US has at least 5 major dialects, and canada at least 3, of english;<BR>
Detroiters sound more like canadians than yanks....<BR>
<BR>
The problems would be the loss of socialized medicine in Canada,<BR>
differences in legal basises and biases, and the sheer distances involved.<BR>
<BR>
An NAU has always sounded good to me.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: Even with the 3I and the Solomani Confed, the differences are much<BR>
larger than the US and Canada. the 3I is a blend of Sylean, Vilani, and<BR>
Solomani traditions, with over 1000 years of multi-lineal divergence under<BR>
a common union; the SC severs to an autonomous (and internally more<BR>
homogenous) regionin IIRC 600 IC.The war ca. 950-1000 IC simply completes<BR>
the divergence. So, in the 5Fw-rebellion era, that's 500 years of<BR>
divergence and separate identity. Not the mere 200 of US  vs Canada, and<BR>
even there the divergence period is OVER culturally for entertainments; the<BR>
3I and SC do not have the cultural sharing which the US and Canada have....<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:53:44 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Firearms Discussions <BR>
<BR>
>Arm Everybody. The Good Guys outnumber the Bad Guys.<BR>
>        - seen recently on a bumper sticker<BR>
>Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
    Kinda like "Save the Unicorn", Good guys/Bad guys is the same order of<BR>
myth<BR>
    Jim L.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:57:09 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
> You want gun control, enforce a country-wide set of restrictions,<BR>
> eliminate all "grandfather clauses" allowing resale of existing weapons et<BR>
> al (use buy-backs if necessary), enforce drug law level penalties for<BR>
> non-complience (mandatory sentencing, like there is for crack cocaine) and<BR>
> offer $5,000 buy-back on any firearm not covered by the licensing. Cost<BR>
> you a few billion dollars, but if you've the stones for it...<BR>
<BR>
One problem - if Australia's experience is any guide buy-backs don't<BR>
work.<BR>
Rupert Boleyn<BR>
<BR>
    I wonder who got my shotgun? It was one of those crummy Bentley riot<BR>
guns, I hope it blows up on them.<BR>
    Jim L. (Who did the right thing during the "Buy-Back" only the<BR>
government didn't.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:02:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
<BR>
>Back when I did nothing but read UFO books (Chariots <BR>
>of the Gods?) they discussed a number of biblical <BR>
>passages. I think the behavior of the ark was blamed <BR>
>on radioactivity.<BR>
<BR>
Why would mating pairs of animals be attracted to<BR>
radioactivity?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 ... oh wrong ark.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:09:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
>This discussion points out one of the weaker points <BR>
>in "Traveller sociology" -- the assumption that the <BR>
>Vilani, Zhodani, etc. all lack the genetic, <BR>
>phenotypical, linguistic, and cultural diversity of <BR>
>the Solomani, because small numbers were transplanted<BR>
<BR>
>while the Solomani had somehow fuller gene pool to <BR>
>draw on. <BR>
<BR>
>This is totally indefensible on a linguistic<BR>
>and cultural ground, I'm willing to fight to the <BR>
>bitter end; on the genetic and biological side, I'll <BR>
>defer to more versed phys anthrotypes here, but from <BR>
>what I understand there's no real support for that<BR>
> either<BR>
<BR>
I'm with Kenji on this one, but for aesthetic as well<BR>
as scientific reasons.  The diversity makes a more<BR>
enjoyable universe for me to imagine.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:17:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
<BR>
>From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
<BR>
>I've written a space combat game the history of which<BR>
<BR>
>has combined USA and Canada into the Union of North <BR>
>America.  How would Canadians feal about that?  <BR>
>Americans?  Would it help that in 2080 the president-<BR>
>elect from Toronto gives a "before the decade is out"<BR>
<BR>
>speech<BR>
<BR>
I'd kind of like to play a map-and-counters game of<BR>
U.S.A. versus Canada.  I'm sure we'd quickly take out<BR>
their air force and capture the major cities, but<BR>
rooting the rebels out of the mountains and forests<BR>
could take a really long time.  <BR>
<BR>
At least we'll have taken over their tv and movie<BR>
industry and been freed from the pornographic<BR>
socialist propaganda they constantly beam down here.  <BR>
<BR>
In answer to your questions, the Canadians will<BR>
probably feel like any conquered and occupied country,<BR>
and the United States will feel like its usual<BR>
ambivalent self.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:20:30 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Weapons, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
> In Traveller I have assumed that starship crew and passengers<BR>
> need either local or "general" gun license (depending on local<BR>
> Law Level) if they want to carry personal weapons when they<BR>
> leave the ship.<BR>
><BR>
> In Imperium the imperial nobles might be considered as being<BR>
> "above" the local laws, but in Solomani Confederation I have<BR>
> assumed that there is a kind "Confederate gun license" which<BR>
> allows the holder to carry personal small-arms within the<BR>
> confederation (SolSec personnel would have this kind of<BR>
> license which supersedes the local restrictions).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
IMTU I also allowed a weapons dispensation in certain circumstances based on<BR>
being a member of the imperial nobility.   It was very limited and applied<BR>
to a limited number of types of "hand weapons".    Given sufficient social<BR>
standing it might be extended to one or two similarly armed "body servants".<BR>
The noble was held strictly responsible for the actions of his/her vassals.<BR>
I generally ran it as a direct modifier of the world's law level with regard<BR>
to weapons allowed to be personally carried by the noble and with an even<BR>
smaller modifier by his/her "body servants".  The noble and his/her "body<BR>
servants" had to have sufficient skill levels with the weapons carried.  The<BR>
servants had to be "bonded".<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:28:33 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
><BR>
>No. The *true* obscenity was thinking you could have a war in Europe with<BR>
>modern weapons and armies of several million each and not have days like<BR>
>the 1st July 1916.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
For more in this vein see if you can find a copy of "The Social History of<BR>
the Machine Gun".  Sorry I don't know the author's name red the book about<BR>
15 years back.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:26:50 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: [BITS] Millennium Announcement Part 2<BR>
<BR>
BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>
http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
<With apologies to Queen's 'Flash Gordon'><BR>
<BR>
Scene: BITS HQ<BR>
With: 	Andy Lilly, BITS Director, as Ming the Merciless<BR>
	Dom Mooney, BITS Webmaster as his majordomo, Klytus<BR>
<BR>
"Dom, I'm bored. What plaything can you offer to me today?"<BR>
"An obscure roleplaying scenario in the Traveller System, your BITS <BR>
Directorship. The creator refers to it as 'White Dwarf'."<BR>
"How fun filled it looks..."<BR>
<BR>
<Offstage, the Rumbling sound of the Acrobat Mills churning, and HTML <BR>
being coded><BR>
<Manic Laughter><BR>
<BR>
"Most effective your Directorship. Will you release this scenario?"<BR>
"Only in the BITS Newsletter! But we'll also make it a free download <BR>
for a limited period only...."<BR>
<BR>
- -----------<BR>
<BR>
BITS would like you to know that very soon we're going to give you a <BR>
small Christmas present, namely one of our fun scenarios from GenCon <BR>
as an Acrobat file. We can't sell this for obvious reasons, and it <BR>
will be only available as a download for a limited time. If you are a <BR>
BITS member you will be pleased to know that this will be in the <BR>
Millennium Special Newsletter, amongst other material. We just <BR>
thought that an adventure about setting up a hamburger franchise on a <BR>
small alien race colony world would be a nice present for the TML...<BR>
<BR>
Can you guess what race's colony that would be?<BR>
<BR>
Dom (BITS Webmaster)<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------<BR>
                  BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.<BR>
  http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk<BR>
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.<BR>
BITS and CORE are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1520<BR>
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